Slasher movies – innovative horror subgenre, or just "some stupid killer stalking some big breasted girl who can't act who's always running up the stairs when she should be running out the front door"? To discuss the relative merits of slasher cinema, we have four people who may have taken their love of scary movies a little too far: Drew Edwards, writer and creator of Halloween Man; Tim Seeley, writer and creator of Hack/Slash and artist on Halloween: Nightdance; Stefan Hutchinson, writer/producer/director of the documentary Halloween: Twenty-Five Years Of Terror, and writer of Halloween: One Good Scare, Halloween: Autopsis, Halloween: Nightdance, Halloween: 30 Years of Terror, Halloween: Sam and Halloween: The First Death of Laurie Strode; and Russell Hillman, editor of Halloween Man.

WHAT WAS THE FIRST SLASHER MOVIE YOU SAW?

Drew - Friday the 13th Part III. At the drive-in, like God intended. And it was love at first sight.

This stands out as an important memory from childhood. I remember someone at our church telling us not to see Jason movies, because when they finally made thirteen of them, it would start the apocalypse. They were 'evil' movies. This of course only made all of the neighborhood kids want to see it even more.

I think it's funny because those movies have gone on to become Americana. But back in the 80s? EVIL!

Stefan - That would be Halloween, which is different to other slasher films in that it's really one of the originals - one of the films that spawned the blueprint. Prior to that I'd been watching monster movies and gothic horror, so this was something completely new to me.

Tim – A Nightmare on Elm Street 2: Freddy's Revenge!

Russell - I was a latecomer. I had a friend at school who loved the Nightmare on Elm Street movies, and we watched part 3 [A Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors], followed by 1 and 2. It was the weekend after part 4 [A Nightmare on Elm Street 4: The Dream Master]. came out, but they didn't have a copy in the video shop so we had to make do with the first three. I hadn't seen that many horror movies at the time so this was a real eye-opener.

I still don't like part 2.

Drew - Maybe it's because my expectations have been lowered by repeat viewings. But the last time I watched Nightmare on Elm Street part 2, I found myself actually *Gasp* enjoying it. It's got a kinkier vibe than the others, and I kind of dig it now.

Stefan - I think it's alright too. I certainly prefer it to the goofier sequels that started afterwards.

Tim - It's actually a very GAY kinky movie. Not that I noticed that when I watched it as a kid.

Drew - Yep and it works for me. Freddy is kind of sexually ambiguous anyway.

Tim - But, yeah, the gay kinky aspect of Freddy 2 is kind of amazing, if not just for the way it flips the 'final girl' thing, by making it a guy... but it retains that weird feminine sexuality thing.

Stefan - The Burning is like that too, if not as openly homoerotic as Freddy's Revenge! One thing that's interesting is that if there is a 'Final Dude' then he's usually emasculated - he's not a male that corresponds to how 'guys' are in horror movies. He's usually socially dysfunctional in a lot of ways, rather than some buff football player. He's the guy that is the target of bullying. The stereotypical gender roles are interesting in that sense, because they're not equated to the actual physical bodies that the leads have. A lot of the film theory on these movies (of which there is very little - basically Carol J. Clover, Vera Dika and their various acolytes) is built around the Freudian stuff - that in the end, the woman becomes the bearer of the phallic symbol as she kills the villain - the starting roles are reversed. I don't think the filmmakers really considered this though. I think they just copied what went before without thinking about it too hard!

Drew - While not a slasher movie in any real sense, I sort of feel like that song and dance was perfected in the Evil Dead movies. Ash is basically a male 'final girl'.

Russell - OK, you've persuaded me. For you guys, I'll give Freddy's Revenge another try.

WHAT MAKES A GOOD SLASHER MOVIE?

Drew - I think the design of the killer/monster is very important, naturally. The death scenes need to be inventive as well. But most importantly, I think the victims need to be appealing. Even if it's merely on an archetypal level.

Stefan - That's a tough one. I don't think there's any one thing, and the mistake people make is that there is just the formula and nothing else, which isn't really true. All of the best films in this sub-genre have something that puts them above their peers. Halloween has its style, Friday the 13th has its raw brutality, etc.

Tim - Likable victims, a creepy, yet likable antihero/villain/slasher, and inventive death scenes.

Russell - Not much I can add here to what's been said. It needs something to mark it out from the pack (like Stefan says, the best ones have something that puts them above their peers).

CONVERSELY, WHAT MAKES A BAD SLASHER MOVIE?

Drew - Wow! That's actually the tougher question of the two. Even a bad horror film can be entertaining.

Tim - If it's neither fun, nor scary, it's not a good slasher movie.

Stefan - Most people who are out to make a quick buck and just put out the basic ingredients - final girl, boobs, a few notable death scenes. Because the basic elements of a slasher film are so basic and obvious, you need to have something more to keep it fresh.

Russell - Again, I think Stefan pretty much nailed this one. I'd say the mark of a bad slasher movie is the same as any other kind of bad movie - lack of respect for the audience. The other day I watched Sorority House Massacre 2, and that's just awful. There's a scene where they tell the story of what happened in the house five years ago - and it's just footage from [the unrelated movie] Slumber Party Massacre. The house is completely different inside and out, and the people they describe as the killer's wife and daughters all look to be about the same age as one another. Plus - somehow - unsexy toplessness.

HAVE FILMS LIKE THE SCREAM SERIES AND BEHIND THE MASK: THE RISE OF LESLIE VERNON MADE IT HARDER TO TELL A SLASHER STORY?

Tim - Not at all. If anything, they've made it easier, since now a savvy audience knows the 'rules' and they can enjoy it more when a film cleverly plays with their expectations.

Drew - Those are spoofs. Did Young Frankenstein make it harder to make gothic horror films? No.

Stefan - Maybe Scream did for a little while, but that's mainly because horror was in a bad place anyway when that came out. What Scream demonstrated was that audiences are familiar with the conventions of the slasher film. However, it also celebrated that the joy of watching these films is seeing the inevitable play out in fresh and surprising ways. We don't need to be ironic, tongue-in-cheek, or smug to make a good slasher movie. We just need to put some effort into it. As for Behind the Mask, it didn't really crossover to the general audience, so in that sense it doesn't matter.

Drew - I think what Scream did so well is that it hammered home this idea of the horror movie 'rules'. And for a while it was fun, but then it got to the point where it was rammed down our throats. I'd love to see some new horror movies that forge their own set of rules instead of working off this shared mythology we've invented.

Stefan - I completely agree. I think it points to a bigger problem with the horror genre in that so many people working in it now are horror fans and ONLY horror fans. They're not bringing any fresh ideas or influences with them. If you look at people like John Carpenter, they weren't just schooled on horror directors, but on the whole of cinema up until that point.

Russell - They've certainly made it harder to tell a formulaic slasher story. Or, at least, they should have.

I think Behind The Mask should have been bigger.

WHAT'S YOUR FAVOURITE SLASHER MOVIE?

Drew - It's not a perfect movie, but I have an overwhelming fondness for [Friday the 13th Part VI:] Jason Lives.

Stefan - Outside of Halloween (because I'm always raving about that one), it's probably Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter. I love that movie. It's brutal throughout, it's not campy in any way and they actually gave the characters more depth than usual. It punches, kicks and screams in all the right places.

Drew - While I'm not sure I'd agree that it's devoid of camp. I do think Final Chapter is probably the first movie where Jason is fully realized. You have the now iconic hockey mask throughout the entire movie of course, then Jason seemingly rising from death in a morgue, and he's just this force of nature from that point on. Prior to that, the series used a lot of POV shots. You were the killer. Here Jason was the star and out in full force.

Stefan - I'd say that he's used as sparingly in this film as he is in the previous two myself. Even though there's no surprise to his look as it carried over from Part 3, he's still kept very much in shadows and shot from the waist down until the latter half of the movie.

There's one shot in The Final Chapter that plays perfectly on the POV shot. It's when one of the twins is outside about to leave, and the camera moves towards her like a predator, making us think we're seeing from Jason's perspective. However, the camera surprisingly carries on right past her, and then the murder occurs behind the camera - we see the shadow of it occurring on the wall as lightning flashes. I think that's a beautiful and clever moment in that film.

The big changes to the Friday the 13th formula, for me anyway, occurred with 5 [Friday the 13th: A New Beginning] and 6. In 5, it becomes almost solely about bodycount. There's no build-up to any of the deaths. Characters appear only to be killed a scene or two later. The rhythm to this film is completely at odds with the four that came before it, and it looks very 80s, whereas the first four, because of the grainy cinematography, feel so much more timeless (well, maybe not part 3 as they had lots of light in that one). Part 5 is neon and overlit throughout. There's no mystery in the frame. Then 6 comes along and Jason IS the star. They don't keep him hidden at all in the whole movie.

I guess that's why I don't care for any of the films after the fourth entry

Drew - The original four movies to me almost have an EC comics look to them, even though I doubt that was by design. That grainy look you're talking about is the thing I keep seeing the recent remakes trying to recreate, and it always ends up looking like a Nine Inch Nails video instead. Like I said, I think it's kind of strange that they'd do that. The Hammer remakes of the classic monster films work because they have their own feel and look.

I think they all look pretty 80s though. The originals are early 80s, so there's still that slight 70s vibe. The others (in the Paramount series) have a more mid-to-late 80s look. All of the movies are very much of their time, but it's not a bad thing in my opinion. I found and loved old Universal horror films on video as a kid, and part of what I liked about them was that they were like little time capsules. I think with DVD, we'll see a whole new generation of Freddy and Jason fans.

As far as only sticking to the original four? I've already declared my love for the entire franchise. I even love Jason Goes to Hell, which is a terrible movie. All the other kids on my block loved Star Wars and I loved Jason Voorhees.

Stefan - That film, in the unrated cut, has the ridiculously awesome tent spike kill. I was watching it for the first time some ten years ago with my then girlfriend in Canada, and her grandmother, a cute little Indian woman who spoke very little English, who decided to join us at that point, and I was floored and she was quiet. Too quiet. Needless to say I ejected the VHS straight away...

Drew - See I love watching horror movies with people who aren't fans - They still get really scared. My wife and I went to see Shaun of the Dead (not a scary movie in my opinion) with one of our friends. She isn't a horror fan like we are, and she was terrified. I stopped watching the movie and started watching her reactions to it. I think as horror fans we start to get kind of jaded. We know all the tricks, whereas people like our friend still have this primal gut reaction.

Tim - The first Halloween... but I really, really like TRICK or TREAT.

Russell - The original Halloween is such a perfect movie, it's really hard to pick anything else... but I'm going to do so anyway. Nightmare on Elm Street 3, as it's pretty much the borderline between original Freddy and special effects showcase wisecracking Freddy. (This conversation has put me in a real Freddy and Jason mood.)

Drew - Jason Lives has one of my favorite images in any horror film, hands down. There's this part where one of the camp counselors is walking by this grouping of windows, totally unaware that Jason is on the other side. It's perfect and creepy looking. I'll take a stand for that movie any day of the week.

AND YOUR LEAST FAVOURITE?

Drew - The remake of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. That's actually one of my least favorite movies period.

Stefan - Gotta be Don't Go in the House! Admittedly I didn't see an uncut of it, but even so. There's a scene in a nightclub where the main slash-happy character freaks out that is unintentionally hilarious.

Tim - The worst one I've seen, technically, is Asbestos Felt's Killing Spree, but that's actually a pretty fun movie. The ones I've enjoyed the least are the PG-13 remake types... When a Stranger Calls or Prom Night.

Russell - Well, the aforementioned Sorority House Massacre 2 is a pretty low point.

ARE THE RECENT REMAKES SUCH AS TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE, HALLOWEEN AND PROM NIGHT, AND THE FORTHCOMING FRIDAY 13TH AND MY BLOODY VALENTINE A GOOD THING?

Drew - I think the retro-slasher films have a fighting chance at being our generation's answer to Hammer Horror. But so far they haven't produced anything overly interesting to me. I thought Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Beginning was entertaining enough. Much better than the prior film anyway.

I think they're kind of weird. You have these slick, Michael Bay produced movies all trying to look like low-budget movies from the 70s and 80s. So they have kind of a strange feel to them. I'm not sure that I like it.

Stefan - For the studios making the money, sure. Half of the time though, there's really no need to remake the originals as what we've seen so far could easily have been adapted into sequels. I'd be more interested if these remakes were approached in the same way as some of the 80s remakes were. You know, films like The Fly and The Thing - radically different from what they were based on. The new ones seem like pale imitations of the originals, lacking the atmosphere and nostalgia-factor that made you ignore their shortcomings. I'm really sick of seeing green filters and shakycam too!

Tim - What they lack in originality, a lot of these remakes do bring in a new audience. So, they are good for that. Some of them have even been okay.

Russell - By accident or by design, I've managed to avoid them all so far, but I'm looking forward to the new Friday. Whether it will be worth seeing is another matter.

Stefan - Actually, I'm looking forward to the new Friday the 13th too. The original Friday the 13th is a classic, but it's a classic through age and influence rather than quality, so to me it's not a Holy Grail like Halloween is. I'm hoping this one is going to be a lot of fun.

OUTSIDE OF LICENSED TIE-INS AND HACK/SLASH, THE SLASHER SUBGENRE SEEMS UNDERREPRESENTED IN COMICS COMPARED TO SAY, VAMPIRES OR ZOMBIES. IS IT HARD TO MAKE A SLASHER STORY WORK IN COMICS?

Tim - I don't think so. I just think there's less fans for the genre.

Russell - It's difficult, but not impossible, as has been proven. I'd like to see more people give it a try.

Stefan - In some ways, yes. You lose the visceral nature of the violence, and more important that that you lose movement and sound, which are integral to the formula. You also lose the audience participation and make it a solo experience. You'll find that most slasher comics go the violence route or the campy route. Both are considerably easier to pull off in comics than actually telling a serious and genuinely disturbing story. It's only the latter slasher films that were really 'fun' - the earlier ones were considerably more serious and terrifying. I'd like to see more of that in comics.

Drew - If anything you'd think slashers would be right at home in comics. They wear masks and funny costumes. In fact, why isn't Batman running around hacking up teenagers? I like the sound of that! Move over Marvel Zombies, make way for DC Slashers!

RECOMMEND AN UNDERRATED SLASHER MOVIE

Stefan - There's not many that are underrated now, because all the gems have a cult following. The Burning is worth a look and should be on the shelves of any slasher collection. I'd also cautiously recommend The Prowler. It's not really a good film, but when it's brutal, it's really fucking brutal.

Tim - Just one?! The Burning is a gem. I recommend Midnight Meat Train, which is a recent Clive Barker goodie.

Russell - Yeah, I finally saw The Burning a week or so ago, and I have to echo the recommendations. Also, I took a recommendation from Tim's Hack/Slash lettercol and checked out Cherry Falls. Better than I was expecting, although the identity of the killer is fairly obvious.

Drew - Candyman, even though it's more of an 'Urban Gothic' than an outright slasher movie. I think it's probably one of the best horror films of the 90's.

Tim - I wanna throw in Nightmare Man. It was one of the HorrorFest flick last year, and stars my friend Tiffany Shepis. It's a really fun movie, with a nice twist on the genre that wasn't as obvious and glaring as Haute Tension.

IF SOMEONE WANTED TO KNOW MORE ABOUT SLASHER MOVIES, WHERE SHOULD THEY START?

Stefan - Tough one, because the slasher roots are everywhere throughout horror history. Normally I'd say Halloween, but that's not really representative of the genre due to its lack of blood. I'd probably recommend the original Friday the 13th. Either that or they could jump in at the deep end and spend 90 minutes with Maniac, which is probably not the best idea for the uninitiated!

Tim - Jim Harper wrote a great book called LEGACY of BLOOD which covers everything you need to know.

Russell - I need to track down Legacy of Blood, but I can't find it anywhere nowadays for anything approaching a reasonable price. There's also a handy little book called Pocket Essentials: Slasher Movies which gives a few good tips.

Stefan - I'd also recommend Games of Terror by Vera Dika. It's an interesting read and less phallocentric than Carol J Clover's Men, Women and Chainsaws!

Drew - Rent the original versions of Psycho, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and Halloween. Watch them all in one go, alone, with the lights off. Consider your cherry popped.

Now if you want a deeper understanding of the genre I think you need to go back much further. Even something as seemingly unrelated as the Rouben Mamoulian version of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde has proto-slasher DNA in it.

Russell - As for the movies, the start points of the Halloween/Friday the 13th/Nightmare on Elm Street sagas would work quite nicely.

YOU'RE CLEARLY ALL HORROR MOVIE BUFFS, ARE SLASHER MOVIES YOUR FAVORITE SUBGENRE?

Tim - For sure. Vampires come in a close second.

Russell – Pretty much, yeah. It's grown from the Freddy fandom of my early teens to discovering the original Halloween, through Scream and its imitators, up to the present day. I like a good zombie or werewolf movie, but give me a guy in a mask hacking his way through a bunch of teenagers and I'm happy.

Stefan - I'd probably say so. I also like horror films that aren't strictly slashers, but incorporate certain elements. I'm thinking of films like Tenebrae, Nightbreed, Candyman and as Tim said, Midnight Meat Train. That was great fun. A lot of recent slasher films have been 80s throwbacks, which don't really do enough for me. Haute Tension was pretty good until they tried too hard and blew it with that retarded twist at the end.

Drew - Ya' know, not really. I'm more of an overall horror fan than swearing loyalty to any one sub-genre. I love slasher movies when they're well done and I love the big icons like Jason and Freddy. I love Leatherface because I'm from Texas. But I'm just as likely to watch an old gothic from the 30s as a slasher movie. It really depends on what kind of mood I'm in. I'm not sure that I can pick a favorite.

Lately I'm at the point where I'd like to see something really bold and new from the horror genre. I think I'm over torture porn (a term I hate by the way) and we haven't seen any new iconic characters in a good while. Where's the new monsters? Where are the new villains? That's what I want to see. It kind of makes me sad that the best this generation has is the Jigsaw Killer. I don't think he's all that iconic either. My 91 year old grandmother knows who Jason Voorhees is. Jigsaw Killer? Not so much.

WHO IS YOUR FAVOURITE FINAL GIRL?

Stefan - Corey Feldman, hands down.

Tim - Laurie Strode/Jamie Lee Curtis. Marilyn Burns too.

Drew - Laurie Strode. Hands down.

Russell - Heather Langenkamp as Nancy Thompson from the first Nightmare on Elm Street

FINALLY – WHAT'S YOUR FAVOURITE DEATH SCENE?

Drew - Today? Jason stabbing the jock, the using the bed to snap him in two in Freddy vs. Jason. Tomorrow I might answer something different. But I love that scene dearly. It always puts a smile on my face.

Russell - Thinking of Nightmare on Elm Street 3 from earlier brings back memories of the puppetry scene, so right now I'm going to say that.

Or the garage door scene from Scream.

Or the sleeping bag scene from Friday the 13th part 7. Or the soundproof glass scene from Scream 2. Or the entire cornfield party rampage from Freddy vs. Jason.

Tim - Jason X. Liquid Nitrogen dip followed by face shatter.

Drew - That was awesome. If I ever felt guilt, Jason X would be my guilty pleasure

Stefan - It's gotta be in The Intruder, when one poor guy gets his head put through a bandsaw. I first saw that when it was mistakenly released uncut in the UK on the Colorbox label, and man, that was really something. Watching that made me feel I was definitely seeing something I shouldn't be, and I'd found a gem.

Halloween Man online

Halloween Comics

Drew Edwards

Hack/Slash

Halloween Comics

Rehab 54 Films

Russell Hillman