by Mike Collins

For people not familiar with your debut novel, Echelon, can you give a description of it? It's a hard book to classify. It's part near future thriller, part conspiracy and part Six Million Dollar Man...

I think you described it perfectly!

In one line, Echelon is a near-future spy thriller, dealing with the NSA's eavesdropping network. It's Jason Bourne meets cyberpunk.

I'd classify Echelon as spy-fi. I'm a big fan of spy fiction (Ludlum, Forsythe, Le Carre) and sci-fi (Card, Gibson, Stephenson, Morgan). Mash the two genres together, and you've got Echelon.

On the spy side, Echelon delves into a global conspiracy from the eyes of Ryan Laing, an operative who's suddenly being hunted by his own organization. Echelon deals with how a Big Brother could rise from our current actions – and how it might then unravel.

The Six Million Dollar Man aspect comes out of Laing's interface with technology. With our current advancements in genetics, robotics, info-tech and nanotechnology, we are quickly entering a world where our interaction with technology will happen on a more visceral, internal level. There's a lot of sci-fi about cyborgs and far future man-machine integration. I'm interested in what the experience would be like for that first guy in line. What would it really be like to have technology invading your body and mind?
My hero, Ryan Laing, is that guinea pig.

This being your first published novel, what was the process like for you?

Short answer – it was fantastic. I also write for Hollywood and while I love writing for the screen, my real passion lies in literature. For years, the idea of writing a book was just too intimidating. Then, I found an idea that captured my imagine enough to give it a shot. So, I sat down and started pounding away. On finishing, the book sold very quickly.

Working with my editor, Betsy Mitchell at Del Rey, was a ton of fun. Betsy really helped me find the driving story within my work. My copy editor, Deanna Hoak, then helped hone that story. It was a lot of work, but great, great fun.

Now, I've just finished Echelon's sequel, EMPYRE which comes out in October. Actually, this is the first time I've discussed EMPYRE publicly. I'm really happy with how it turned out.

Echelon revolves around intercepted electronic communication. What is "the flow"?

The flow is my conception of what the internet will look like in the near future. More and more, I think the internet can be seen as an ocean of information, with its own tides and pressures. The flow plays on that idea.

My characters live in a world where much of their interaction takes place in virtual. The flow has drawn their world together and opened new avenues for communication. It is also the vehicle Echelon uses to control and manipulate world affairs. By its clandestine control of the flow, Echelon controls the world.

Did you try and base the novel in some sort of reality or just let
your imagination run wild, particularly with things like "the flow"
and the sub Laing uses early in the book?

It's a combination, I guess. With larger concepts like the flow, I used my imagination to extrapolate a possible future from what we have today, but all the tech in Echelon is in existence or being developed today.

So, to take your example, the sub Ryan uses in the beginning of the book is based on fact. It uses supercavitation to attain incredibly high speeds underwater. Basically, a bubble of air is generated around the sub, reducing drag and allowing it to fly through the water. Russia and China currently have weapons utilizing this technology and DARPA is evaluating the technology for use in American weapons and subs.

Though I base my future technology on current work and trends, my real interest lies in how my characters will deal with these technologies – in what the on-ground experience of the future will be like.

Ryan Laing is an interesting character. Between being killed in the first chapter and then resurrected full of nanotechnology, he doesn't have an easy start. Did you know where his arc was going when you started writing the novel?

When I started writing, I knew that Ryan's issues would mirror the book's larger geopolitical crisis but wasn't sure how either would resolve.

I always knew that Ryan had to die in the first chapter. No better way to kick of a story, right? And I was interested in how Ryan deals with becoming the first true cyborg. He is a man intent on maintaining control. As an Echelon agent, he works to control humanity's violent tendencies. As a man, he's equally obsessed with maintaining total control of his emotional life. So what happens to a guy like that when Echelon begins to topple just as he's undergoing this massive internal shift?

Like a lot of lead characters Laing is damaged emotionally. Why do you think that's such a prevalent theme in fiction?

It's hard to start with a hero who's happy and well adjusted - to begin a story with 'happily ever after'.

There's no doubt Ryan is damaged goods, but I think that's what makes him interesting. I mean, we all have our issues, right? And when a man is willing to push the limits, to live on the razor's edge, his issues are usually more pronounced. Something has to drive him to that edge.

I guess there is another possibility though. Maybe the real reason
fictional heroes are so messed up is that most writers aren't exactly
running on an even keel – and we're just writing what we know.

Did you set out to create a hero in some ways similar to James Bond?

Totally. I'm a huge fan of Bond – both the books and the films. I was also influenced by Robert Ludlum's Bourne Identity. So there's certainly an aspect of wish fulfillment in my creation of Ryan Laing. He's bad ass – a guy who can handle any situation. But he's also a man that I can relate to – he has weaknesses. I guess I wanted to create a superhero with all the flaws and issues that a normal guy might have.

Ryan works for a secretive agency, is an agent who gets his hands bloody and has his own tech designer in Dave Madda?

Ryan works for Echelon – which is basically a clandestine Big Brother manipulating world affairs. He is part of the conspiracy and believes in it thoroughly. That is until Echelon turns its eye on him and Ryan finds himself running for his life.

In the process, he comes into contact with Sarah Peters, his handler, whom he has never met in the flesh. Her skill lies in pattern recognition, in tracking geopolitical trends. Laing also meets up with Echelon's tech guru – Dave Madda. It's only with Sarah and Dave's help that Ryan can prevail.

Can you talk a bit about Ryan's "drones"?

The drones are my conception of what nanotechnology will become. They revive Ryan at the beginning of the novel and are cutting edge, untested technology. They course through Ryan's body and even attempt to integrate with his mind. The drones give Ryan superhuman abilities – which come at a price. Through the book, Ryan both needs the drones to survive and fights the evolution they force upon him. I'm interested in how the drones affect Ryan on a personal level, and in what it means to be human if you're so
meshed with technology.

While all this might sound out there, I think there's a good chance this type of man-machine integration will happen in our lives. Cyborgs aren't that sci-fi anymore.

Ryan's handler, Sarah Peters, is pretty much the exact opposite of her agent. He's a man of action, she's a thinker. He's out in the physical world while she's constantly surfing the flow. Sarah also becomes a fish out of water as the story progresses. Can you talk a bit about her?

That's exactly right – Sarah is Ryan's counterpart – the thinker behind his action. The conspiracy within Echelon pulls her into the field and forces Ryan and Sarah together. While she's not a field operative, Sarah is certainly more stable than Ryan. As such, the two balance each other out. It's Ryan's relationship with Sarah that allows him to accept both the new world that develops through the story, and his new drone-enhanced experience of it.

Echelon is pretty packed with action scenes and interesting technology aside from the dense plot. Was there anything you weren't able to fit in?

Honestly – that's my main frustration. I have hundreds of pages on new technology, ideas, and storylines that I couldn't cram into Echelon. Doing the sequel has been great – but I just keep finding more topics. I think the fact that I'm constantly finding new stuff for Ryan and Sarah means that the two characters continue to draw my interest. Hopefully, my excitement will carry over to my readers, because the more stories they clamor for – the more I get to write.

You have sprinkled in some highly cinematic settings in Echelon. From Ryan's partially flooded Venice, CA home, to Madda's lab in the abandoned LA subways to Elysium, a hackers sanctuary, in the middle of a dead zone. Did you write this with an eye towards it becoming a movie?

Yes and no. I think that my experience in Hollywood gives me a visual writing style and keeps me connected to the location of each scene. As with the technology, all of the locations in Echelon are based on reality. I have spent time in each of the book's locales, from Venice Beach, to the Highlands of Scotland, to the far reaches of Nepal, to the beaches of Thailand.

All that said, the great thing about writing a book is that I don't have to worry about a production budget. I can let my imagination roam and throw my readers into any scene that comes to mind. That's a tremendously freeing experience.

So, yes, I've thought a lot about Echelon as a movie, but I wrote it to be a great book.

Speaking of movies, if Echelon were to be made into a movie who would you like to see cast as your characters?

I'm going to plead the fifth on that one. Echelon is getting a lot of interest in Hollywood right now and I don't want to play favorites.

What's your stance on surveillance of "private" electronic communication?

I'm conflicted. Though I write about surveillance run amuck, I understand the need for our government to keep track of those that threaten us. Finding a balance between privacy and security is no easy task.

My book takes an eavesdropping system in existence and looks at how it might evolve and grow as technology advances. While the real ECHELON and systems like it cast a wide net, our intelligence services can't fully analyze the catch - yet. But, processing power will catch up to systems like ECHELON and then we're in for interesting times.

So, the question becomes how much freedom are we willing to give up for our security? Finding a balance between privacy and security will be a central issue in the 21st Century. My hope is that Echelon will foster debate on the subject.

Your next novel, Empyre debuts this fall. What can you tell us about it?

As I said, this is the first time I've talked publicly about EMPYRE. It takes place about five years after Echelon ends and continues to follow Ryan and Sarah.

Basically, EMPYRE looks at a post Big Brother world. There are a lot of stories about bringing down an oppressive system. EMPYRE looks at the fallout of such an event. How would a world that has only known peace, react to real violence? To war? And how would my heroes deal with the fact that they threw the world into this mess?

Like Echelon, EMPYRE is a thrill ride. I'm not big on down time in my books.

You've also worked in television and film, most notably as the chief consultant on HBO's ROME. Can you talk a bit about what you did on that show?

For Rome, I co-wrote what's called the story bible. That's the 70-some page document outlining the series, characters, episodes and larger arcs.

I often get asked how I could go from ancient Rome to writing a sci-fi thriller. My response is that they're not that different. For any project, I try to come up with an interesting world and then populate it with characters and a storyline that's relevant and meaningful today.

What else do you have coming up Josh?

Publicity wise, I'll be heading down to Comic Con in a few weeks to do some panels and signings – which should be a blast.

Book wise, I'm sifting through my vat of ideas for a new stand-alone novel.

I am also developing the next Ryan Laing book. Oh, and I've been toying with taking Ryan Laing into the comic book world. I think the character and his world would make a killer comic book.

On the film side, I just finished writing a thriller. It's a modern day
adaptation of Dante's Inferno set in Los Vegas.

So, I'm staying busy.

You can check out my website (www.joshconviser.com) for the full update and excepts of Echelon.

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